Comments on: The Four Virtues http://www.sacredriver.org/470/the-four-virtues Exploring a nontheistic spirituality grounded in naturalism and humanism Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:50:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Peter Schogol http://www.sacredriver.org/470/the-four-virtues#comment-177 Peter Schogol Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:54:47 +0000 http://www.sacredriver.org/?p=470#comment-177 "Therefore, the true aspiration is not towards some state of idealized perfection or grace, but towards becoming ever more virtuous. If one is doing that, then they are on the path of virtue. One could call this our meta-virtue—the steady seeking of virtuousness." One of the reasons I ended my Buddhist practice was because of its view of enlightened existence as the necessary end-state, viewing all other existences as preparatory. For me this emphasis kept me in guilt and self-doubt. So much more healthful in my eyes is the emphasis on process rather than product. Peter “Therefore, the true aspiration is not towards some state of idealized perfection or grace, but towards becoming ever more virtuous. If one is doing that, then they are on the path of virtue. One could call this our meta-virtue—the steady seeking of virtuousness.”

One of the reasons I ended my Buddhist practice was because of its view of enlightened existence as the necessary end-state, viewing all other existences as preparatory. For me this emphasis kept me in guilt and self-doubt.

So much more healthful in my eyes is the emphasis on process rather than product.

Peter

]]> By: Ash http://www.sacredriver.org/470/the-four-virtues#comment-97 Ash Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:15:19 +0000 http://www.sacredriver.org/?p=470#comment-97 I agree with Loyal Rue when he writes, “More positively, if we can manage to create the conditions for organizing healthy, well-integrated, robust personalities, and if we can simultaneously create the conditions for constructing coherent, cooperative, harmonious groups, we will thereby maximize the odds favoring human viability…Whole persons cannot be nurtured in a context of social chaos, nor can a coherent social order be constructed by dysfunctional individuals” He argues that it is possible for both to exist harmoniously, but more often than not the two create tension. The dual goals of personal wholeness and social coherence are both a part of Sacred River. I agree with you that we will be better served by including tales of how they become articulated in people’s lives than just in dry essays. That is not my own personal strong suit, so I hope one day somebody will step up and volunteer such stories. But I think you are on to something by looking to existing tales to offer as illustrations. That is an excellent future project. I agree with Loyal Rue when he writes, “More positively, if we can manage to create the conditions for organizing healthy, well-integrated, robust personalities, and if we can simultaneously create the conditions for constructing coherent, cooperative, harmonious groups, we will thereby maximize the odds favoring human viability…Whole persons cannot be nurtured in a context of social chaos, nor can a coherent social order be constructed by dysfunctional individuals”

He argues that it is possible for both to exist harmoniously, but more often than not the two create tension. The dual goals of personal wholeness and social coherence are both a part of Sacred River. I agree with you that we will be better served by including tales of how they become articulated in people’s lives than just in dry essays. That is not my own personal strong suit, so I hope one day somebody will step up and volunteer such stories. But I think you are on to something by looking to existing tales to offer as illustrations. That is an excellent future project.

]]> By: Ropian http://www.sacredriver.org/470/the-four-virtues#comment-95 Ropian Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:50:52 +0000 http://www.sacredriver.org/?p=470#comment-95 Always good to read insightful secular reasoning about morals and ethics... There's so much to explore here, lately I was also pondering about - but didn't get to properly sort out yet :) - the question how can one successfully combine - the naturalist understanding of ethics and traits being partially determined (as told by evolutionary psychology, and experimantal comparative ethics) - the seemingly sound approach to ethics in theory being the empirical consequentialism - the seemingly sound approach to ethics in practice being prescriptive, like establishing desirable traits, virtues or attitudes I'm thinking along the lines that properly established - let's say - virtues more frequently tend to result in actions that are beneficial to the person (working as it evolved to work) and society (working as systems of people evolved and were constructed to work) also indirectly benefiting individuals. Another interesting area that comes to my mind is the connection between social principles (or interest of the community) and personal virtues (or fulfillment of the individual). I guess the core concept here is responsibility and being properly functional in various connections and roles that one takes in personal relationships and social constructs. Anyway, I like the core formulation of seeking personal excellence and aspiring to be ever more virtuos. The CIBO virtues themselves also do make sense to me - I can't wait the follow-ups! :) As for bringing some life to the cold philosophy, reason and experimental evidence, it would be nice to collect some tales and ancient wisdom with morals supporting the choice of CIBO. Always good to read insightful secular reasoning about morals and ethics…
There’s so much to explore here, lately I was also pondering about – but didn’t get to properly sort out yet :) – the question how can one successfully combine
- the naturalist understanding of ethics and traits being partially determined (as told by evolutionary psychology, and experimantal comparative ethics)
- the seemingly sound approach to ethics in theory being the empirical consequentialism
- the seemingly sound approach to ethics in practice being prescriptive, like establishing desirable traits, virtues or attitudes
I’m thinking along the lines that properly established – let’s say – virtues more frequently tend to result in actions that are beneficial to the person (working as it evolved to work) and society (working as systems of people evolved and were constructed to work) also indirectly benefiting individuals.
Another interesting area that comes to my mind is the connection between social principles (or interest of the community) and personal virtues (or fulfillment of the individual). I guess the core concept here is responsibility and being properly functional in various connections and roles that one takes in personal relationships and social constructs.
Anyway, I like the core formulation of seeking personal excellence and aspiring to be ever more virtuos. The CIBO virtues themselves also do make sense to me – I can’t wait the follow-ups! :)
As for bringing some life to the cold philosophy, reason and experimental evidence, it would be nice to collect some tales and ancient wisdom with morals supporting the choice of CIBO.

]]>